- Show format change (00:33)
- What does building trust entail? (03:21)
- Real-life examples of broken trust. (06:13)
- How being authentic can help. (16:05)
- Tips, tools, tactics to building trust. (20:18)
Welcome to the urban fantasy author podcast from indie authors to tread pub gritty, contemporary fantasy to lighthearted urban fantasy masquerade to unmasked every episode, we’ll bring you new interviews and commentary regarding all things urban fantasy. Now, here are your hosts, M D Massey and Paul sating.
M.D. Massey (00:23):
All right, so welcome everyone to the urban fantasy author podcast. I might ask you, and I’m here with Paul Sating. Paul say hi.
Paul Sating (00:30):
Hey guys, how you all doing?
M.D. Massey (00:33):
And we are just to let you know, we’re transitioning to kind of a new format for the podcast. In the past, when I started this podcast my, my vision for the podcast was to interview urban fantasy authors and to introduce listeners to their work, through samples of their audio books. And that’s worked really well. But what we found is, is it’s often difficult to book urban fantasy authors on a regular basis, which has caused us to be a bit inconsistent with posting new episodes. So what we’re doing is we’re actually changing the format of the show a little bit. We’re still going to invite authors in to do interviews time to time from time to time, but we’re doing kind of the little author chats. So what I’ve discovered through listening to my readers and feedback from my newsletter list and so forth from my subscribers is that there aren’t a lot of I guess you could say aspiring authors that read our works and Paul, have you found that as well? All that
Paul Sating (01:33):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say I would even take it a stretch further with some sort of a data to back it up as with my Patreon stuff, about half of my population on Patreon, you know, your hardcore supporters, they’re actually aspiring authors. They come for the non-fiction advice that I give as part of like a patriotic exclusive. So yeah, definitely from my experience as well.
M.D. Massey (01:55):
Yeah. So, so what I find is my most popular blog posts are always, I’m almost always when I post about kind of like writer insights, you know, like what is it like being in a D author, you know, the life of an indie author a day in an indie author’s life, you know, et cetera, et cetera, talking about you know, w you know, how I became a successful indie author and kind of sharing tips about that. I think my, my subscribers appreciate it. You know, my followers on Facebook appreciate it. I get a lot of feedback and a lot of interaction when I post that stuff. So we decided, well, let’s just go ahead and change gears for the podcast a little bit and talk about these things and share that with our audience. So that’s what we’re doing. And Paul, what is today’s topic? What are we talking about for this, this inaugural edition of the semi relaunched urban fantasy author podcast?
Paul Sating (02:45):
Well, what does a great segue, right? It to shift the format of the show and also talk about something that’s important. So that listeners trust that what they get when they listen, when they download or stream the podcast is what they expect from this. So topically, it works in well with being indie, indie writer and figuring out how do you build trust with your reader base, your fans, those people who love your stories, what is building trust to maintain it? How do you repair it when you’ve gone astray, as we all do as being human. So I think it’s a great thing to kick the show off with, in this new format.
M.D. Massey (03:21):
Yeah. So we’re talking about building trust today, building trust with breeders. I think it’s a, I think it’s a good topic to just start with today. So you know, talking about building trust. So the first thing is, you know, we talk about building trust with your fan base. What exactly does that mean? What are we, you know, what are we getting at? Because, you know, trust can mean many things, but I think for myself, what that means is it means building a reader base. I don’t like to say that I have fans because I’ve, I’ve always said authors don’t have things. Your books have fans, your series have fans, your characters have fans, your stories have fans, but you do not have fans. You have readers nobody, unless you’re, you know, like, I don’t know about DACI or eating, or, you know, something like tag, you know, people, people aren’t gonna recognize you walking down the street, you know, and to me, that’s it, you know, it’s a different thing, but and perhaps that’s just me being unnecessarily humble. But but for me, building trust is about showing my readers that I can delivery, consistent product that they can count on, and then they can come back and purchase again and again, and receive or enjoy a similar experience. Each time they pick up one of my novels, whether it’s the first novel in a series or whether it’s the 12th. So that, to me, that’s what it means. And Paula, what would you say,
Paul Sating (04:47):
No, I don’t disagree with you at all on that. I think that’s a great succinct way to actually capture what it is. They, I, I don’t see what we do it any differently than any other product that’s out there. When I go you know, I was thinking about this morning as I was preparing for it. When I pull up my favorite show on Netflix or Hulu B, because they have a new season out, I have expectations and I have the trust, a trust in those creatives and those writers to deliver the same. I like stupid comedy, you know, so to deliver the same level of stupid comedy. And when I buy a certain type of car, I know what kind of performance I expect out of that. And it’s, and when that is delivered, when that, when that product meets that expectation, that helps me build trust in, in that product.
Paul Sating (05:35):
And it’s the same thing with us. We do that through, like you said, Mike, with the series, with the releases meeting, what those expectations, what we, as creators have set for folks. And then it goes all the way down into, you know, the stylistic aspects of it, the, the voice we use, the edginess or lack of edginess, you know, if we make it vanilla or really on the fringe, whatever, if we deliver on those expectations that we’ve already set for folks. And I’ll take that even a step further, if we do shift one day that we have prepared folks for that shift.
M.D. Massey (06:13):
Yeah. And, you know, a perfect example of that. We spoke about this in our last mastermind group. We’ve started a mastermind group where several of us, urban fantasy author stuff, rust meet you know, together, we have a secret top secret group on Facebook that, you know, we get together and talk shop about once a month. And I related a story about how, when I wrote my first series, my them series, the scratch Sullivan series, that series, you know, it’s, post-apocalyptic, even though it’s paranormal, post-apocalyptic, post-apocalyptic kind of military paranormal, apocalypse novel, and the main character is very much your you know, kind of typical, you know, military veteran, you know, kind of, you know I, I hate to get it, I can talk politics because we talked about that as well. How I, you know, I’m more of an entertainer I write for entertainment and, and not to not to pander to any audience whatsoever, but kind of your typical ex-military kind of libertarian doesn’t necessarily trust the government, you know, that, that type of thing, you know, just basically general, you know, good old boy.
M.D. Massey (07:19):
And I, I, that series, you know, I mean that type of, of that genre attracts a certain type of reader and it’s a certain type of reader that reflects the main character. So when I shifted years and I decided to write the junkyard Druid series, well, you know, the main character is a young, you know not even 20 something, you know, 19 year old college student living in Austin, Texas, you know, so I figured, well, you know, this kid, you know, he’s probably, you know, kind of, he’s probably kind of liberal leaning, you know he probably has friends from all walks of life and, and not that scratch Sullivan is in any way a bigot, cause he’s not, you know, that’s not who the character is and characters was very much not, but you know, those elements weren’t very overt.
M.D. Massey (08:06):
And so, you know, one of the first scenes in the book is when Colin goes into he goes into LA creme, which is, you know, the coffee shop it’s run by the gay local coven leader, the vampire Kevin leader. And you know, I noticed that I got a lot of negative reviews and people actually went so far as to mention that in the reviews. And you know, I, in a way it really bothered me on a personal level because on a personal level, I’m like, this is just the type of people I meet every day in Austin, Texas, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, I’m like, come on, but on a professional level, as an author, you know, in hindsight, I realized that I had set certain expectations for my audience, and then I didn’t continue to maintain those expectations. Now, if I would have said, you know, in a newsletter or whatever, when I knocked the book and said, Hey, this is going to be a little bit different than last book.
M.D. Massey (08:54):
You know, the main characters are a little bit different because one of the mistakes that readers often make is that they mistake the main characters values for the authors values. And that’s not always necessarily the case. I want to write all different types of care. I don’t want to write just characters that just reflect my personal values. I want to write characters that reflect, you know, a plethora of values you know, it runs the gamut. So I think if I would’ve said at my newsletter, you know, well, you know, this, this character is, you know, going to be a little bit different, you know, these, this he’s, that, here’s how he’s different from scratch. So even if it’s not your cup of tea, you know, don’t buy the book, you know, but if it sounds interesting you to go buy it, I think that would have been a better way to pivot with my audience.
M.D. Massey (09:37):
And I think that, you know, I probably damaged some trust with the readership that I had developed after that point. Now, many of them stuck around like a lot of people, you know, I mean, you know, let’s face it, most people are, are, are, you know, pretty reasonable and I don’t care about stuff like that, you know? So that’s fine. In some sense, I, you know, I, I might say, well, you know, it’s easy to say, well, you know, I don’t want readers like that, but, you know, I don’t want to project my own personal values on my readers either. You know, I’m not here to preach to anybody I’m just here to entertain, you know? And I felt like I wrote a couple of very entertaining series, but, and in the same sentence, you know, you know, I’m sure that, you know, I could have pivoted a lot better. So, you know, that’s just a perfect example of how once you develop a certain type of trust and you, you, your readers trust you and they continue to buy your work because you are delivering, you know, a certain type of product that they’ve come to know and trust. And so then when you change that, when you pivot too much, sometimes that can damage that relationship.
Paul Sating (10:36):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it’s, it’s part of that trust. It’s any kind of relationship. And I agree with you. I don’t think, except for the very elite we don’t have fans, we’ve got, you know, fans of a series fans of a character fans of a world, but we, you know, people, you know, people follow us because of that stuff. Not that they’re fans, but at the same time, it’s still a relationship it’s just like with any other type of relationship. And if we meet those expectations, if we meet them on that level, it doesn’t have to be intimate. You know, they can be a notional care, a person, not a notional character, a notional person. But if we meet them on that level, like when I write newsletters, I don’t write, you know, I, I, you know, my introductory welcome is, you know, hello to the army of immortals is it’s a little fantasy branding that I’m doing in my newsletters because I don’t, my plan is not to remain just restrict, restrict.
Paul Sating (11:34):
It’s got such a negative connotation, but I’m not going to just write urban fantasy. I will branch out into other low high fantasy, epic fantasy, dark fantasy type stuff. So I wanted a term that would kind of endear them on that level, but the content of the newsletters themselves is always written as if I’m talking to one person, you know, that notional newsletter subscriber. And I do that on purpose because I want to build that relationship with them. I do ask them you know, to respond to emails occasionally. And, you know, I have a question of the month type thing and get them to kind of build that, to also build out who my reader is out there. But at the same time, it is it’s, you know, part of that way of delivering those newsletters. And I noticed a far better response rate when I was consistent across all things.
Paul Sating (12:27):
I came over from the professional world, and then I did podcasting for roughly eight years before I started mutating my fiction scripts into novels. And then I said, I really dig this novel thing. I’m going to continue, but fantasy isn’t big in audio drama because it’s very difficult to pull off. You need big production dollars to do fantasy right in podcasting. So I had done things like thriller and horror, but that’s not where my love was. I wanted to get into fantasy. And as I transitioned, I was caught between the professional mindset. And I hadn’t, I didn’t understand who I was as an author, without throwing around the ugly, you know, the weird term of branding too much. And it wasn’t until I embraced that my newsletters need to sound just like the voice in the Zodiac series. You know, that same quirky, strange humor, just embrace who I am.
Paul Sating (13:25):
That’s when I started getting higher response rates, more open rates on emails and those higher response rates and more positive sales trends overall. And it’s because I believe one aspect of it was this thing we’re talking about here with building trust, the Paul and the newsletter, the new newsletter sounded a lot like the Paul author, the person behind the, the characters that you’re starting to fall in love with. It wasn’t always like that. And it was not until I actually said, you know, screw this Uber professionalism and this seriousness, let’s just have fun with the newsletters and use that same voice because that voice is, is the real me. I’m snarky I’m irreverent sometimes to a fault. And I struggled as a newer author to be okay with that. Once I did, I found that that positive reinforcement through that responsiveness that helped me embrace it and continue that and build on it. And I really feel like that was part of the building trust with those folks is they get to see more of the real me and that real me and the newsletter started sounding like the real me behind the stories in, you know, in the books that I write.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Let’s all go to those lobby. Let’s all go to the lobby. Let’s all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Dude is this thing on, I’m sorry to interrupt your urban fantasy podcast interview thingy. This is Colin McCool, and I’m breaking the fourth wall to encourage you to buy MD Massey’s books, because if you don’t, he’ll stop writing my stories. Chances are good. That’ll get me stuck in a temporal causality loop or left in the middle of a cliff hanger or some other crazy scenario that hack hasn’t thought up yet. So go to MD, massey.com now, and click on something that looks interesting, then buy the thing, please. Yeah, that’s all, I guess,
Speaker 6 (15:57):
Speaker 7 (15:59):
We used to meet your presentation.
M.D. Massey (16:05):
Well, you know, I think there’s been a trend in, in among consumers to be you know, more cynical and less trusting over the last three decades. And that, you know, the ability to project an authentic voice is so important when connecting with your audience and it doesn’t matter what you do, you know, in the in my past life, you know, I was a martial arts instructor, professional martial arts instructor for two decades. And then I segwayed into writing business Spaniels and doing consulting work for martial arts school owners. And what I found is, is that I gained traction very early on with my work, even though I didn’t have a huge platform because I had an authentic voice. I was at a point in my career where I was really just off with the martial arts industry and, you know, how commercialized, you know, martial arts instruction to become and so forth.
M.D. Massey (16:53):
And I let that, you know, kind of come through in my books and in my newsletters and in my blog posts. And, you know, a lot of people out there, I found out a lot of people felt the exact same way. They were like, yeah, commercialism, you know, ruining this industry. And, and so that helped me build an audience very early on. I have, you know, clients, customers, followers that have been with me for, you know 18 years since I wrote and released my first book, my first non-fiction book. So it’s interesting that people stick around when you have an authentic voice. And you know, I hope that I’m doing the same thing in, in writing fiction with my urban fantasy readers as well, you know you know, projecting that presenting an authentic voice and let people know who I really am, you know, and you know, sometimes it’s difficult to, because you know, in many ways in today’s business environment, you know, you, you kind of walk a fine line because, you know, you don’t want to pander to audiences.
M.D. Massey (17:47):
That’s something I’ve never wanted do. I’m like, you know, I, you know, I, when I read a book, when I pick up a fantasy novel and mostly read fantasy, although I would read some science fiction, but when I pick up a fantasy novel, you know, I don’t want to be preached to, and I don’t think my readers do either, in my opinion, you know, and once again, this might be, you know, somewhat false humility, but, you know, nobody gives a when my political views are, they don’t, they don’t need to hear that. And so, you know, I want to write a book that people can pick up and just escape, you know, and that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do. And hopefully, you know, that attitude is coming across as well in my communications and interactions with my readers. So,
Paul Sating (18:24):
Yeah, well, and it’s very important to do. And so boy, I, that’s a whole nother topic. Maybe we should tackle another day is I, there are like your comment just spurred this thought about I’ve had prominent authors. And we all know that the past year was a very turbulent trying year for everybody, but it really was, and it polarized us. It polarized us. And it was hard for me to see, and I’m not going to go, I swear, I’m not going to soap box, but it was hard for me to see because it did change. I lost trust in a few people that I looked up to because they were just as frustrated as us, but they’ve got a very large platform. And I’m talking about authors here, a very large platform, and they wanted to use that to voice, which is well within their right.
Paul Sating (19:15):
But at the same time, you have to understand the impact that it has on folks. And does that matter to you or not? Maybe these people I’m referring to probably have enough in the bank. They’re not going to ever worry about me not buying their books ever again. But I know we are trying to focus on shorter episodes. So one of the things I wanted to make sure that we covered is tactic tactically. Mike, I used to use a word when I did the horrible writing podcast, all the time tips, tools, and tactics is something I learned when I was a very young military guy. And I’ve kind of brought it over into the writing format because I, I, when you can anchor, when you give advice to folks and you can anchor it in something very specific, right. We can talk theory all day long, but sometimes folks just need something as concrete as we can make it. So what are Mike, what are some of the things that tactically you have done maybe tried and failed it or tried and succeeded, but what have you done that you feel has helped build and maintain trust over the years with your readers?
M.D. Massey (20:18):
Well, it’s funny, you mentioned your military background. I spent the whole weekend, 4th of July weekend with an old high school buddy of mine. My original DND buddy does the dragon buddy and he’s career military. He’s a major in the air force right now. He just got his first command. So it’ll probably be a light current soon, but it was funny because like he just communicates using like military lingo, you know, it’s like, you know, and he told him to text me when he get off the airplane. He’s like, we are officially in the AOR. You got it, man. It was a blast. So yeah, I get that. So, well, I think the first thing is being consistent in your app, like consistent publishing on a consistent schedule. And this last year I picked up my publishing schedule for the first half of the year. From December to June, I want to say that I wrote five or six books.
M.D. Massey (21:08):
I can’t remember. It’s close to that. Something like that, somewhere in the realm of five to six books, which is quite a bit more than it normally, normally I, I average four books a year, so trying to double that off, but this year, and what I found is is that right now, you know, I’m supposed to be on sabbatical, although I’m doing side hustle work, but I had to take some time off because I was pushing a little too hard and you know, it was starting to, you know, you know, kind of hinder my muse, you know, once your passion starts to feel like work, you know, it, it becomes hard to put out, you know, I would say a quality product put out a consistent product. You know, I have to enjoy the writing process. I have to make sure that I’ve maintained that balance between how hard I pushed myself working and, you know, and, and also, you know, the work rest balance and all that stuff.
M.D. Massey (21:53):
So, so that my books, the books that I’m writing are consistent quality. You know, if I don’t enjoy the writing, it comes through, you know, it shows in what I’m, what I’m putting out when I’m publishing. But I think despite that if your readers learn to expect the book from you every two months or every three months, you need to stick with that. You need to make sure that if you’re putting out four books a year, that, you know, you’re, you’re delivering four books a year, you know, and if you promise, read or something, you know, you promise them a book, you know, every four months or something like that, that you stick with that, you know, whatever it is. And I’ve heard many indie authors say that the minimum buy-in now as far as how often you publish frequency of publishing is about four books a year.
M.D. Massey (22:32):
You know, that’s pretty much the minimum buy in. If you want to be a full-time professional indie author. And you know, once you get your readers accustomed to that, boy, you better stick with it. Because as I said before, once you let your readers down, once you let them down. And, and instead of delivering a book, you know, in say three months, it takes you six months, you know, those a second, the second half of that six month period, you know, they’re not just gonna like turn to other authors, they’re going to forget about you, you know, because consumers have short memories now. And I, this is not saying anything bad about readers or whatever, but, you know, I mean, readers read to be entertained. And if you’re not entertaining the some other author womb. So I think that’s really important. I think that’s one of the tactics is just simply consistency.
Paul Sating (23:17):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. And it’s funny, you mentioned that because again, anybody who has looked at, I look at my website, you can see I’m all over the board. And I readily admit it. I jumped into this stuff because I tapped, I retired from the military and I realized I’ve, I’ve wanted to write, I want to be that eight year old again, who is writing in second grade and winning story contest. I want to be that person again. I’ve got that position in my life now where I can do it, I’m going to do it. But as is one of my failings or failures, I go after things, if I want something, I’m, I’m that dog that will not let go of your pant leg. So w that’s why when you go look at me on the Amazon page, you’ll see I’m all over the place.
Paul Sating (23:58):
But I have started dedicating a lot of time to businesses, positioning myself and fantasy, which is why I got those four Zodiac books out last year. And I’ll do two this year. And I don’t know how you feel about this, Mike, but one of the things I did, because I believe that you better you better hit those marks with those expectations that you set for releasing. And if you can’t, or if something changes to make sure you educate folks, folks, aren’t dumb. And if you respect, I feel if you are, you know, that reciprocity in terms of respect, if you let them know if something’s going to change, you do it. So, for example, I just released my fifth book in may and the sixth one doesn’t come out for a half year later, but in the series catalog in those books and now went even back into the back matter of the older ones, I made sure I updated that to let folks know, you know, book six, the title and bracket, you know, in parentheses coming fall 2021, just let folks know it’s a target I’m going to hit because it’s already done and I’m working on the audio book now.
Paul Sating (25:02):
So it’ll be ready well in advance of when it needs to drop, but at least I’ve done that for them. And then, like you’re saying, going forward, I’ve corrected course to where I can be releasing, you know, those books more regularly, and I’ve shifted in terms of series. So the Zodiac books will still come out twice a year and I’ll be doing a number of other books in between that. Because again, I’m going to try to tackle two branches of this fantasy tree, but with consistent releases, what about pricing? How do you feel about that? Because I know this can be a buyer genre thing, but this is an urban fantasy author podcast. So for urban fantasy and pricing and building trust with your fans, we’ve got the business gurus who tell us, you know, here’s a strategy and as the market shifts you shift, but I I’d love to know what you think about, how do you use pricing or the pricing element as a trust builder with fans or with readers?
M.D. Massey (26:01):
Honestly, I think a lot of any authors underprice their work. I think a lot of indie authors underestimate the amount of money that readers are willing to spend on a book. Now, I know there’s data out there that comes from various sources that we author see what indie authors see about, you know, what is the the sweet spot, you know, what’s the best price point now. And, and many times it’s said to be 4 99 or something like that. But you know, coming from my background as a small business consultant, one of the biggest hurdles that almost every client ever had, had to overcome was believing in, in their own product, the quality of their own product and charging what they were worth. You know, so Amazon makes us as indie authors. If we want to get that sweet 70% commission, Amazon makes us price our books between 2 99 and 9 99, if they’re in.
M.D. Massey (26:54):
And also if they’re Kindle unlimited, I think they have to be priced, you know, a certain amount I forget. But but anyway, that’s kind of where Amazon wants us to price eBooks. And so, you know, anywhere in that kind of range is pretty comfortable, that’s a pretty comfortable place where people that just spend money on books, right? Like if I see a book at an e-book by favorite author, it’s 8 99 or 9 99, you know, I’ll pull the trigger on that. Some people have tighter budgets, you know, so they might go for, you know, like 2 99 book or something like that. So you have to remember that, but you know, honestly, as far as pricing goes, what I think you have to do is, is you just have to be consistent. You know, if you’re, you know, if you’re pricing your books at 4 99, you know, and be consistent about that and make sure that every book that comes out is priced at 4 99.
M.D. Massey (27:37):
You know, if your price point is 2 99, and you’ve developed a readership for 2 99, you know, there’s nothing that says that you can’t raise your prices over time, but you should still drop some books that are 2 99 for those readers that started with you, you know, when you were, when your books were priced lower. And that’s why, if you look at my series on, are branching off and doing a spinoff series right now, but typically the first book in the series is usually priced at 2 99, you know, because, you know, I feel like, you know, that’s what I started at and I should still drop some books that are priced at 2 99. So, you know, people can pick them up at a reasonable price and then if they decide that they’re invested in it and they really want to keep reading, you know, then maybe will spend a little more 4 99 or 5 99.
M.D. Massey (28:16):
But once again, I think it’s just consistency, you know you know, don’t, don’t, you know, start dropping books at 2 99 and then all of a sudden raise the price to 9 99 because some book room tone, I don’t think anybody’s doing that. The only, the only place where I can sell an ebook for 9 99 consistently is a non-fiction, you know, cause the perceived value is a lot higher, but but still, yeah, I think, you know, consistency is good and nobody likes a bait and switch. No, no, no I, yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, in layman’s terms, you know, don’t on your readers. So, you know, I’ll, I’ll say this, I wanted to mention this earlier. I think a lot of authors do kind of crap on their readers. You know, because you know, let’s face it. A lot of us authors are introverts and we don’t people very well.
M.D. Massey (29:08):
So we don’t do people in very well. So you know, when readers start to, you know, clamor for the next book, when’s the audio book going to be at? You know, that’s what I always hear. And it doesn’t bother me. You know, some authors really get prickly about this stuff. When’s the next book coming out? When is the audio book coming out? What is this, what is that? And they feel like they’re being badgered by the readers. And in my mind, I’m looking at it like, you know, glass, half full I’m like, yay. You know, these people want the next thing that I’m creating. So I think it’s good, but I think oftentimes, you know I think authors and through having kind of a negative attitude in their minds that we used to develop an adversarial relationship with their readers. And I think that’s very harmful.
M.D. Massey (29:51):
It’s harmful for the author it’s harmful for their career. And then they end up letting that come out, you know, through their interactions with readers, you know, I’ll post a snarky post on their Facebook page and you know, or an email or whatever, to their newsletter subscribers about, you know, don’t, you know, stop asking this and that. And I’m like, wow, don’t do that to your readers. These people, you know, they’re, they’re, you know, they’re, you’re paying your mortgage man and your car payment or whatever, you know, this is the, these, these, these are the people that help you build your career, you know, so treat them right. And that’s, that’s another thing I think, you know, developing, you know, trust in every interaction with your readers, you know, shouldn’t be, it should be positive. Even when somebody, some dude, some dude gave me a backhand had gotten that compliment.
M.D. Massey (30:36):
It was so obvious, you know, that he was kinda like just being snarky. And I was like, okay, whatever, I’m ready. I’m not even going to acknowledge it. You know? And I just kept being polite and so forth because that’s professionalism, right. When, when somebody is, is unprofessional with you and your professional in return, that is the market that your profession. So, you know, I think making sure, and besides the fact that we want to treat people the way we want to be treated, you know, I was a reader and I have contacted authors in the past and have them be very short and very snarky with me, you know, when I was contacting them to compliment them or their work or whatever, you know, that sticks for the reader. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I don’t think, I don’t think we can afford to deal with
Paul Sating (31:15):
So, no, I, I think that’s a great example. I’ll share anecdotally real quick, cause I know we’re getting ready to wrap up, but that, to your point right there at the end, you can’t see, cause it’s over behind my monitor, but I was a young, young military guy who was stationed overseas in Germany. And back in the day I was I had just discovered Pierce Anthony and I loved his stuff. So I, and I had learned that he had served as well. So I mean, God, I was 19. I think I wrote him and I was curious how somebody like Pierce Anthony. Cause at that time he had 20, 30 books already. By the time I found him how he balanced the military career, a family and being able to get published back in the day when you had to wait three years for your book to see the light of day kind of thing.
Paul Sating (32:03):
And, and it’s funny that you say that Mike, because I’m looking right over my computer monitor and I still got his letter framed because he didn’t reply shortly. The, the dude wrote me an entire single-spaced very full letter response. It’s got to be, I don’t know, 300, 350, 400 word response from him. He was already established at that time. And he took that much time for me and I never forgot it. I, you know, that’s still my example to this day, if you don’t, these people are your biggest cheerleaders. If you’re having a crappy day, put your phone where you can’t get to it and come back to that when you’re in a better mindset.
M.D. Massey (32:39):
Yep. Yeah. Just yeah. Yeah. You know, because if you’re having a day where you can’t say anything, nice, don’t say anything at all, you know, just like mommy’s to tell you. So you know, something do that. Yeah. Those are words to live by when you’re interacting with readers, you know, and the readers are listening to this podcast, you know you know, I hope you take it to heart. You know, I personally am. I’m very thankful every day. I, you know, I wake up some not necessarily wake up, but, but at some point during the day, every day, I remember to be thankful for the fact that I have an indie author career because it really is a dream job, you know? And there are, I realized there are many, many people out there who would kill to be in, in that position, the position I’ve been in. Yeah. And so you know, I I’m, I’m thankful for it. And I thank my readers for coming along in the journey with me.
Paul Sating (33:32):
They’re the ones who make it possible.
M.D. Massey (33:34):
Absolutely. All right, cool. So, you know, with that you know, campfire, kumbaya Fest, I think we can wrap up this this episode. So anyway, we’re going to be coming at you. How often are we going to be publishing this episode? Depaul,
Paul Sating (33:52):
We’re going to aim for folks. We’re going to try to do a bimonthly. So twice a month, you’re going to get new episodes, topically like this. So of course, if you have something specific, you want to hear us banter around and along with guest authors, we are working with a few authors to get them on and have them throw their opinions in as well. Let us know, reach out to us at our sites, which are all over on the urban fantasy author, pod website and we’ll work those in as well. But yeah, we’re going to try to do twice a month.
M.D. Massey (34:21):
Yeah. And if you are an indie author and your fantasy author and you have, you know, several, if you have at least one book published, but we would prefer for you to have at least a finished Revegy before we introduce them to our audience. But if you’d like to come on and you know let us host you for an interview, you know, feel free to reach out to us and we’ll be, we’ll be happy to speak with you about that. You know you know, personally, I enjoy speaking with other authors, which is why I started that Eric fantasy mastermind group that we’re at. So yeah, by all means, you know, feel free to reach out to us now. What do we have coming up in the next episode?
Paul Sating (34:57):
The next episode is going to be fun. We’re going to be talking about writing to market specific to urban fantasy. So that’ll be a fun conversation.
M.D. Massey (35:06):
Yeah, it is actually one of my favorite topics. So that, that should be a good one. So everybody tunes in for that. So for everybody out there listening, I want to thank you for tuning into the podcast and make sure you hit that subscribe button, subscribe to the podcast. You can be notified when we have new episodes dropping both on iTunes and on other platforms. And once again, thanks everyone. Remember let’s see here, Paul, where can people go to find out more about your work?
Paul Sating (35:35):
And if they just head over to Paul sating.com, they can find all they want.
M.D. Massey (35:40):
Okay. And my website is M D massey.com, M D as in David massey.com. And once again, you can find all my work there. Thanks everyone. And we’ll be back in a couple of weeks with another episode.
Thanks for joining us. Remember to subscribe to our show on iTunes and be sure to stop by our website urbanfantasyauthor.com for new podcast episodes, interview transcripts articles, news, and more see you next week.